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MBW’s World’s Biggest Songwriters collection celebrates the composers behind the globe’s largest hits. This day out we meet Sir Tim Rice, EGOT winner and the person who provided the phrases to go together with the music in a few of the largest stage reveals and Disney movies of the previous couple of many years. Earlier this 12 months his phenomenal profession was acknowledged with the presentation of the Johnny Mercer Award on the Songwriters Corridor of Fame. World’s Biggest Songwriters is supported by AMRA – the worldwide digital music assortment society which strives to maximise worth for songwriters and publishers within the digital age.
As a younger man and aspiring songwriter, Sir Tim Rice’s principal ambition was to have a observe recorded by Herman’s Hermits. He failed. He did, nevertheless, go on to be certainly one of solely 18 individuals in historical past to realize EGOT standing. So…
It’s telling that the self-effacing Brit is happier speaking concerning the Herman’s Hermits shortfall than shouting concerning the EGOT triumph.
To the extent, actually, that it’s all the way down to MBW to elucidate that he gained his Emmy for Jesus Christ Famous person Dwell In Live performance (2018); Grammys for Evita (1981), A Complete New World (1994), Aladdin (1994) and Aida (2001); Oscars for A Complete New World (1992), Can You Really feel The Love Tonight (1994) and You Should Love Me (1996); and Tonys for Evita (1980) and Aida (2000).
All these successful works have been created with certainly one of his three principal collaborators throughout a close to 60-year profession – Andrew Lloyd Webber, Elton John and Alan Menken.
It was a precociously proficient teenage Lloyd Webber, again within the mid-Nineteen Sixties, who persuaded him that the Hermits’ loss could possibly be musical theatre’s acquire. Collectively they wrote Joseph and the Wonderful Technicolour Dreamcoat, Jesus Christ Famous person and Evita.
John and Menken have been central figures in Rice’s second act as one of many key creatives in Disney’s Nineteen Nineties revival, contributing lyrics to The Lion King and Aladdin.
He’s additionally had No. 1 hits within the US (A Complete New World) and the UK (Don’t Cry for Me Argentina, I Know Him So Properly).
Earlier this 12 months, he obtained the Johnny Mercer Award on the Songwriters Corridor of Fame (having been inducted into the group’s ranks in 1999).
His success story begins, nevertheless, with one other failure, this one much less area of interest than the dream of penning a follow-up to Mrs Brown You’ve Obtained A Pretty Daughter. This was a traditional: not changing into a pop star.
When, how and why did you first begin writing songs?
The why is as a result of I needed to promote my voice as a possible pop singer. This didn’t work*. I despatched a tape, a fairly ropey tape I’m certain, of three songs I’d written, phrases and music, to each file firm in London.
I didn’t wish to sing anyone else’s hits, as a result of I might nearly actually be unfavourably in contrast. So I made a decision one of the best factor to do was to put in writing my very own songs, so no person may say, ‘Oh it’s inferior to Mick Jagger’s model, or Tom Jones’s model’.
In fact I heard nothing again. After which I obtained a name from a music publishing firm, out of the blue, who stated, ‘We’ve been given this music by Piccadilly Data, they need certainly one of their teams to file it’.
I stated, ‘What did you consider the singer?’. To which the replied, ‘Not very a lot, who’s he?’. I stated, ‘Oh only a pal of mine, you’re proper, he’s horrible’. And so a music of mine obtained launched [That’s My Story]. And it was a flop.
However it gave me one thing I may carry spherical to individuals within the publishing enterprise and the file enterprise, making an attempt to get some form of job.
One writer I performed it to advised me he didn’t prefer it, however he knew a younger man who needed to put in writing songs for the theatre, and possibly we must always meet – since you’ve obtained a little bit of promise and maybe you’ll enhance. And that was Andrew Lloyd Webber.
I went to fulfill him in March or April 1965. He was useless set on the theatre. I used to be solely vaguely set on the pop world, however he was so decided and so clear and so assured.
He’d written a musical which wanted phrases. So I put phrases to it and it labored. Properly, really, that first present [The Likes of Us] didn’t work, nevertheless it proved that we may write collectively. After which we did Joseph [and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat] for faculties, after which Jesus Christ Famous person, and so forth. However that was why I first wrote a music: to promote my voice.
Did it instantly click on with Andrew by way of your inventive relationship – and if that’s the case, why?
As a result of we each admired what the opposite may do. It was clear to me that he had a terrific reward for theatre and for musicals. I imply, he additionally beloved rock n roll, he was completely conscious of what was occurring. However he needed to put in writing a la Lionel Bart, Rodgers and Hammerstein, and so forth.
“I may inform he was good, and after I wrote some lyrics for him, he thought they have been sensible. I didn’t know if he was proper about that, nevertheless it appeared to work and we caught collectively.”
I knew all the large songs, however I didn’t actually know a lot concerning the theatre. I’d hardly been to a musical. However I may inform he was good, and after I wrote some lyrics for him, he thought they have been sensible. I didn’t know if he was proper about that, nevertheless it appeared to work and we caught collectively.
How did you come to put in writing Jesus Christ Famous person? And the place did the phrase ‘Famous person’ come from?
Properly, we’d written this piece for faculties which had carried out properly [Joseph]. And that led to a recording contract for an album of the present. That, in flip, obtained us first rate, environment friendly administration. We have been finally signed up, on the energy of Joseph, to put in writing for 3 years.
In impact, we had three years to make it. It was a bit nerve-racking, as a result of I used to be older than Andrew, nonetheless am really. I used to be 22, and I assumed, gosh, that is dangerous, however you recognize, it is a chance. Andrew was way more: we’ve obtained to do that.
I’d at all times had this factor about Judas Iscariot and Pontius Pilate since I used to be at school. I assumed they have been attention-grabbing characters – I’m clearly simplifying my deeply clever ideas right here.
I used to suppose, if I have been round in Jesus’s time, if I have been Judas Iscariot, or Pontius Pilate, would I not have carried out the identical form of factor?
That was at all times vaguely in my thoughts. I assumed if ever I write a guide, or do one thing inventive, which I hadn’t deliberate to, I used to be bone idle actually, however that may be a terrific subject.
After which, once we instantly had this chance of three years assured wage, I recommended this factor about Judas Iscariot to Andrew. He thought it was nice concept.
Initially we thought it will have a guide, it will have dialogue, however primarily songs. And once we completed it, our supervisor hawked it spherical to all of the all of the theatrical impresarios of the day, and none of them have been . All of them stated, ‘No, you possibly can’t do faith within the West Finish’.
However we did handle to get curiosity from a file firm, MCA, who stated, ‘Why don’t we do an album, see how that works?’
This was fairly an unique idea, doing the file first. However it was what really made the piece work. We needed to reduce out any concepts of getting dialogue, we had significantly better assets, we had entry to a recording studio, which meant we may have a rock band and an orchestra. And this album turned out to be an awfully giant hit.
First, we needed to put a single out, which was Murray Head singing the title observe. And I do know your unique query was concerning the phrase ‘celebrity’…
Initially, it was simply referred to as Jesus Christ. However after I was writing the lyrics to that music, I noticed an advert for, I feel, Tom Jones within the Melody Maker. And it didn’t say his title, it simply stated ‘The World’s Quantity One Famous person’ – and that was it.
It appeared very daring on the time – and it was, however I feel utilizing it gave us fairly an enormous enhance.
After which in fact, the album was a mega hit – in America particularly, at which level each theatre man within the West Finish and Broadway needed to do it.
How a lot controversy was there on the time?
The BBC have been reluctant to play it, though Alan Freeman, bless his cotton socks, performed it 4 weeks operating on Choose of the Pops, nevertheless it nonetheless didn’t hit in England. The BBC restricted its play, for certain.
However in America, there have been no restrictions, and when the album got here out, they performed the it all over, and by early January 1971 it was No. 1, knocking off certainly one of my heroes, George Harrison: I felt relatively embarrassed.
How did you and Andrew come to put in writing one of many final songs that Elvis ever recorded [the last track on his last album, in fact – It’s Easy For You from Moody Blue, released in 1977]?
I labored at Capital Radio and there was a really good woman there referred to as Linda Brooker who was a pal of Elvis Presley’s music writer, Freddy Bienstock. Andrew and I met Freddy by Linda and had dinner with him one evening, he was thinking about assembly songwriters.
He stated that if we needed to submit a few songs for Elvis, he’d make sure that he obtained to listen to them. Which was, you recognize, wow!
So we wrote a few songs and despatched them to Freddy – that is in 1974, by which era Famous person had been an enormous hit in all places. After which we really by no means heard a factor till two years later. An album or two got here out, we weren’t on them, after which Elvis was solely doing reside albums for some time.
However then he did an album referred to as Moody Blue, and ours was the final observe on it, which was so nice for us, as a result of once we have been youngsters, in fact, Elvis was The King.
What introduced concerning the parting of the methods with Andrew?
After Evita, he needed to do a music primarily based on T.S. Eliot’s Previous Possum’s Ebook of Sensible Cats, which clearly didn’t want lyrics. I used to be changed by a useless poet, how about that? We simply form of drifted aside after that.
The form of stuff he was doing, whereas very profitable, significantly Cats and Phantom, it wasn’t actually my form of factor. I used to be nonetheless most likely hankering to be a bit extra on the rock facet of issues.
Anyway, I had this concept for a musical about chess and politics and love and romance set within the Chilly Conflict.
Bjorn and Benny of Abba, who you could have heard of, have been intrigued by the thought and that was the start of Chess and the beginning of me spending lots of time in Sweden working with them.
What was that like?
It was nice! Once more, the factor is, you’ve obtained to admire what your collaborators are doing, and I used to be an enormous admirer of theirs. I had a really enjoyable 12 months.
The file did terribly properly, the present did properly in London and has been successful in a number of nations, however we nonetheless haven’t actually had the definitive Broadway smash we would like; we’re nonetheless hopeful about that.
How did you come to work for Disney and what was that like, nearly being a part of an organization after a extra freewheeling life?
Properly, sure, it was relatively like working for a corporation and I loved it enormously. And it was good to put in writing for movie relatively than theatre.
At one level Disney have been going to make a movie of Evita, so I met lots of the senior executives by that. And fairly frankly I saved dropping hints, saying that I assumed that writing for the form of movies they’d began making – they’d simply began their Nineteen Nineties revival, with issues like The Little Mermaid and Magnificence and the Beast – can be proper up my alley.
It should have labored as a result of I used to be requested to return in and focus on a brand new challenge, which at the moment was going to be referred to as King of the Jungle, which is daft as a result of there’s no jungle in Kenya. It turned The Lion King, in fact, and I used to be in from the phrase go for that.
Midway by, and being on the spot so to talk, I used to be requested to assist out with Aladdin, which had been tragically affected by the loss of life of the sensible lyricist Howard Ashman. I stepped in to work with Alan Menken on that, together with writing A Complete New World.
What was working with Elton John like on Lion King? And presumably you’re an enormous fan of his ‘common’ lyricist, Bernie Taupin?
Bernie is improbable. Bernie and I write very different types of lyrics. I couldn’t write the sort of sensible and really attention-grabbing psychological stuff he does. My admiration for Bernie is large.
“I stated, ‘Properly, you gained’t get him, however what about Elton John?’ In fact in the long run they did get him.”
However, with The Lion King, they requested me who I needed to put in writing the music, and I stated, ‘Properly, you gained’t get him, however what about Elton John?’ In fact in the long run they did get him. And Elton was sensible.
He’s subsequently at all times been very sort and at all times provides me credit score for giving him one other string to his bow, as a result of he’s now had 4 reveals on Broadway.
Do you know Elton whenever you advisable him, or have been you only a fan?
I knew him, however I didn’t know him extremely properly. I’ve met him and I’ve been to 1 or two of his events, I appear to recollect – vaguely [laughs].
And what was it like working with Alan Menken?
Alan’s nice. He’s extra like Andrew to work with than Elton within the sense that he likes the music first, he’s very theatrical and he’s obtained a terrific information of theatre historical past.
Do you favor writing lyrics first or writing lyrics to music?
For me, the story should come first. You’ve obtained to know what the music goes to be about. I’m not likely good at writing one-off pop lyrics which don’t actually have a degree past being a music.
So, as soon as the scene is established, like Argentine woman singing on a balcony to 10,000 followers, then the composer and the lyricist each know what kind of tune and phrases are required, so it nearly doesn’t actually matter which comes first. The whole lot has to serve the story.
You latterly obtained the Johnny Mercer Award from the Songwriters Corridor of Fame. What was that like and what does that imply to you?
It was a terrific evening out! And It’s clearly a terrific honour. Alan Menken, who has gained it beforehand, was there on the evening, chatted to me on stage and accompanied the performers singing A Complete New World and I Don’t Know How To Love Him. It was nice enjoyable.
* Rice says it didn’t work, however he does sing on a UK No. 1 file, offering backing vocals – alongside Elton John and Jack Bruce – on The Scaffold’s 1968 hit, Lily The Pink.
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