WasteFuel CEO Trevor Neilson on renewables, climate change, ‘interesting bunch’ of activists

“It’s relentless consumption 24 hours a day, seven days per week,” he says in dialog with deputy editorial director Ellie Austin at Fortune’s Global Forum in Abu Dhabi. “It appears as if individuals are behaving in a manner that we’d by no means inform our youngsters to behave.”

Yearly, the world produces over 2.01 billion metric tons of municipal strong waste, and Neilson’s firm is looking for to make one thing helpful out of this disaster, by remodeling waste into renewable fuels. This has introduced him involved together with his main buyers, BP and Maersk, but additionally local weather activists, who he calls an “fascinating bunch.” He remembers how Roger Hallam, the founding father of Extinction Rebellion, “informed me he didn’t belief me as a result of I used to be a capitalist. And I couldn’t run from that, as a result of I had an extended profession as a capitalist.” 

However as he regarded across the room in Abu Dhabi, Neilson mentioned the United Arab Emirates ought to stand out as a key instance for anybody fearful concerning the future. “Anyone that thinks that this isn’t attainable, take a look at the historical past of the UAE and what it achieved in 50 years,” Neilson mentioned to a full room in Abu Dhabi. “And picture, with the identical degree of dedication, the identical degree of entrepreneurship and engineering expertise and dedication to one thing, the place we may very well be in 50 years.”

Watch the video interview above or see the total transcript beneath.

Ellie Austin:
The world is affected by an ever-growing strong waste drawback. Based on the World Financial institution, greater than 2 billion metric tons of municipal strong waste is produced globally yearly. By 2050, that determine will improve by 70% to three.4 billion metric tons a yr. The rise is pushed by components similar to inhabitants progress, urbanization, financial improvement, modifications in consumption patterns and our existence. Mismanaged waste contributes to a rise in greenhouse gasoline emissions, and it could actually additionally improve the unfold of illness. 

In our Local weather Innovation highlight at the moment, we’re delighted to be joined by the chairman and CEO of WasteFuel, an organization that’s working to handle the local weather disaster by changing waste into low-carbon gas. He’s additionally the chair of APCO’s worldwide local weather and biodiversity workforce. 

So we now have heard concerning the big quantities of waste produced globally every year. Let’s begin at fairly a fundamental degree, are you able to clarify to us what the objective of WasteFuel is and the expertise it makes use of to realize that objective?

Trevor Neilson:
The fundamental state of affairs is that the world is choking on the waste that we’ve produced. You cited a number of the numbers, and a manner to consider it’s that by 2050, we’re going to have extra plastics within the ocean than fish.

In case you think about the quantity of waste that’s produced on this planet, it will be sufficient to fill all of Manhattan two miles excessive. We’re choking on the waste we’ve produced and so with WasteFuel, we began with the thesis that our waste may very well be our gas, and that this disaster may very well be a possibility. So principally, within the municipal waste stream, someplace between 30% and 40% of that waste is natural in nature. So we take these organics, we separate them from the remainder of the waste stream, and we principally create a gasoline which we then flip into methanol, which is then offered into the market. BP is our largest investor and Maersk can be a giant investor of ours. And we made a guess that the worldwide delivery market was going to methanol as a transition gas, that delivery would not likely use [liquefied natural gas], it wouldn’t use hydrogen, no offense to the hydrogen folks, it wouldn’t use ammonia, no offense to the ammonia folks. However as a substitute it will go to biomethanol, as a result of biomethanol is fairly simple to supply in comparison with these, and likewise simple to maneuver around the globe. 

Ellie Austin:
How does biomethanol examine to different power sources when it comes to its emissions? 

Trevor Neilson:
On a life-cycle evaluation, which is the way in which you have to take a look at this stuff, the biomethanol that WasteFuel produces will burn at a few 90% discount in carbon dioxide to fossil. Now, that’s due to the way it’s produced on the molecular degree. This is identical molecule that’s burned for those who’re deriving it from oil and gasoline.

Ellie Austin:
And what’s the carbon footprint of the method itself of taking waste and turning it to power? As a result of that sounds fairly resource-intensive?

Trevor Neilson:
Yeah, we use a gasification course of that requires some electrical energy. So if we will get that from renewable sources, we’re completely satisfied to do this. However actually, that is nature doing what nature does. We’ve entered right into a expertise partnership with BP that offers us entry to some proprietary enzymes that they personal, so to not convey you again to highschool biology, however these are bugs that catalyze an natural course of that creates a gasoline, which we then seize and switch right into a liquid liquid gas. So it’s not that sophisticated.

Ellie Austin:
And geographically on this planet, the place are you doing this for the time being? The place are you sourcing this waste from?

Trevor Neilson:
We’ve got tasks in locations the place there’s quite a lot of waste, maybe not surprisingly. Within the Philippines, for instance, we’ve obtained an incredible mission with Prime Infrastructure, which is the main infrastructure developer. We’ve got a partnership right here within the UAE, with Averda, one of many main waste administration firms. We’ve got tasks in Uruguay, a mission that’s taking place in america. Just about anyplace the place we will entry giant volumes of waste is the place we need to be.

Ellie Austin:
And also you talked about that you’ve a partnership with BP and likewise that you just goal the delivery trade particularly. That are the industries do you see WasteFuel increasing into and why over the approaching yr?

Trevor Neilson:
Nicely, we’re simply going to concentrate on delivery and the rationale for that’s that there’s an enormous disconnect between provide and demand. So there are about 250 new ships which have been ordered which are going to run on methanol. These ships principally have not one of the provide that they want so WasteFuel can hold itself busy solely Within the world delivery market if it needed to. The flip facet is that methanol, together with biomethanol, is a crucial feedstock for different mission merchandise, formaldehyde, for instance. 

However for now we’re actually centered on delivery and doing that in partnership with BP. And also you talked about the mission with Averda, which is, I imagine, the primary business waste to renewable power plant within the Center East. 

Ellie Austin:
Are you able to discuss us by means of the standing of that mission? And perhaps one of many greatest challenges that you just’re going through with it for the time being? 

Trevor Neilson:
Yeah, I imply, we’re working by means of the main points of it, the Dubai Industrial City. The reality is, we’re virtually there. We’re coping with issues now like electrical energy costs, and sewer costs, and kind of the boring minutia of those tasks. However we imagine that we’ll be the primary on this planet or among the many first on this planet. We’ve got different tasks right here within the area, as properly. And, you recognize, I feel it’s a spot that the UAE will be very proud that it’s main, like on quite a lot of these different points. 

Ellie Austin:
Enjoying satan’s advocate, I assume you could possibly say that if we discover a resolution to our big waste drawback, and turning it into power, that would disincentivize us from making an attempt to chop down on waste in our households or recycling. What’s your response to that? And the way does what you’re doing coexist alongside the recycling motion? 

Trevor Neilson:
We’re working with the natural fraction of the waste that’s not being recycled. So you recognize, whether or not human beings can lower their consumption, that may be a completely different matter, I feel. I imply, it’s wild ranges of consumption which are driving the emergency that we’re in. It’s relentless consumption 24 hours a day, seven days per week. And I feel that in a sure manner, whether or not it pertains to carbon dioxide or pertains to the plastics which are within the ocean, or many different points, people are going to, sooner or later, perceive that infinite consumption on a planet that by its very nature is finite, doesn’t work. And I really suppose that fundamental actuality, name it a mathematical actuality or simply widespread sense, must be introduced into the dialog a bit of bit. 

It appears as if individuals are behaving in a manner that we’d by no means inform our youngsters to behave. You understand, I’ve obtained three children, and I might  by no means say, “Certain, you should purchase no matter you need on Amazon. Your allowance is that this, however you should purchase no matter you need on Amazon.” In impact, that’s how we’re appearing on these points. Lots of people try to work on it. 

You understand, you talked about the APCO climate and biodiversity practice that has been arrange by the founding father of APCO, Margery Kraus, who’s a mentor to me right here within the viewers, set as much as assist firms making an attempt to take care of this and create methods to acknowledge that, you recognize, infinite waste on a finite planet doesn’t work out very properly. I must also level out that Bill McDonough is right here someplace, the daddy of circularity, the writer of Cradle to Cradle, a hero to me, we wouldn’t exist with out Invoice and his work. So there are thrilling issues taking place. However I feel we even have to only test ourselves a bit of bit and say, you recognize, are we behaving in a manner that may make sense if we had been explaining it to our children? And I feel sadly, the reply to that’s no.

Ellie Austin:
I need to change tack a bit. So along with WasteFuel, you do many issues, Trevor, and one in every of them is that you just based the climate emergency fund CF, which is a nonprofit that helps local weather activists, together with teams similar to Extinction Riot, and Just Stop Oil. Now, I imagine you’re not actively working with the group, and also you’ve been fairly essential over the previous yr about a number of the aggressive activist techniques that these teams are utilizing, calling them counterproductive. In your eyes, what does productive local weather activism seem like nowadays, provided that we’re on this disaster?

Trevor Neilson:
You understand, the local weather activists are an fascinating bunch. And the primary time that I met Roger Hallam, the founding father of Extinction Riot, he informed me he didn’t belief me as a result of I used to be a capitalist. And I couldn’t run from that, as a result of I had an extended profession as a capitalist. 

The place I feel local weather activism has gone off monitor is that they imagine that disruption alone will create change. And I feel the proof suggests the in any other case. I feel that you could possibly block each avenue in London for the following yr, you could possibly paint each constructing orange, you could possibly glue your self to something that you could possibly glue your self to, and as of proper now, Labour within the UK continues to be going to help drilling within the North Sea, as a result of they’re involved about power safety. 

So what the activists I feel have gotten fallacious—and I respect them, by the way in which, as a result of they’re coming from a spot of deep concern about the way forward for this planet, they usually’re not fallacious about that concern—however we now have to maneuver to a brand new part the place folks with the engineering know-how, the business know-how, the those who know how one can remodel our power system, additionally see themselves as local weather activists. We type of want to maneuver to a brand new period on this, and it’s one which requires partnership between folks that usually don’t like one another very a lot, and positively don’t sit on the similar desk. I feel that when that begins taking place, you’ll see actual progress. 

And I’ve to say, regardless of the controversy related to this COP, you’re seeing the UAE lean into this dialog in a novel manner that we now have by no means seen from an oil-producing nation, they usually’re going to be criticized they usually’re not going to be excellent, and individuals are going to provide you with issues, a few of which can be actual. However you need to hand it to this nation for being keen to drive the dialog to a brand new place. It’s very admirable. It’s by no means occurred earlier than within the historical past of the world. And I feel all of us hope and we want one thing necessary to return out of it. 

Ellie Austin:
You talked about infinite consumption, after which additionally speaking about those who we would not anticipate turning into local weather activists and enthusiastic about activism otherwise. What could be your message to the leaders on this room about tangible issues that they’ll do inside their organizations, that governments, to essentially make sure that this difficulty stays on the prime of the agenda and that they’re contributing to vary? 

Trevor Neilson:
I had a very fascinating and exquisite second the opposite day. I dwell in California, and as I used to be strolling alongside I heard the decision to prayer, and it led me to cease and suppose a bit of bit concerning the Islamic traditions round environmentalism, notions of Khalifa, which is a notion of stewardship. And I don’t must lecture folks on this room concerning the teachings of the Prophet and the deep steering inside the Koran round environmentalism and stewardship.

I feel that the important thing with this COP is rising above the day-to-day drivers like EBIT or P&L, and stepping again a bit of bit and enthusiastic about the long run. And proper now, the indicators aren’t good about our future. I imply, with 420 components per million of co2 within the ambiance, we’re seeing ecosystems collapse, the biosphere is starting to break down. And you’ve got plant and animal species which are kind of the primary model of that. However the issue with the biosphere collapsing is that we’re part of the biosphere, we’re part of these ecosystems. So I might simply hope that leaders, be they CEOs or authorities leaders, or others which are right here on the desk pondering generationally about this, you recognize, enthusiastic about the place are we in 50 years, or 100 years and take into consideration what can happen take a look at the place this nation was 50 years in the past. 

Anyone that thinks that this isn’t attainable, take a look at the historical past of the UAE and what it achieved in 50 years. And picture, with the identical degree of dedication, the identical degree of entrepreneurship and engineering expertise and dedication to one thing the place we may very well be in 50 years. People are able to unimaginable issues. And this nation is an excellent instance of that. And if we dedicate the identical kind of focus to this, I imagine we will obtain what we have to obtain. 

Ellie Austin:
My closing query is, you talked about that disruption perhaps isn’t the reply to grassroots activism for the time being. If that isn’t the route, you imagine we must be taking place? How do you convey folks into the local weather dialog who perhaps suppose it isn’t for them? Or it’s not a precedence? How do you make folks take observe who haven’t performed till this level, perhaps due to the political facet of the aisle they sit on?

Trevor Neilson:
You’ve obtained to get folks out of their reptilian mind. You’ve obtained to get folks out of a shortage mindset. As a CEO, I take into consideration P&L. I take into consideration my subsequent board assembly, I take into consideration the annoying electronic mail I simply obtained from one in every of my buyers—not that any of my buyers are annoying, for the document, however sometimes they’ve requests and issues like that you need to take care of, and there’s my, every day mindset of “How do I get by means of it?” However for those who converse to me about my children, for those who converse to me about their future, what kind of world will they dwell in? If they’ve kids, what is going to their lives be like? Will they’ve birds chirping? Will there be animals within the wild? Are animals going to be one thing that my 7-year-old solely is aware of from kids’s books? And he is aware of that they was on the market, however they’re not anymore. I don’t need that. I don’t suppose any of us need that. So for those who converse to folks in these phrases, and for those who interact them in a manner that will get them pondering long-term slightly than short-term, I feel highly effective issues can happen.